One Pence None the Richer

Scott Hardie | September 21, 2017
I have liberal friends who condemn principled conservatives for supporting Trump. They say conservatives used to stand for certain important values and ideals, and Trump not only violates those ideals but denigrates the nation and risks serious dangers to the world (his brinksmanship with North Korea, his cozying up to dictators, etc), and they say that the once-principled conservatives who now support this man because of the (R) next to his name have revealed themselves to be hypocrites.

I also have liberal friends who don't want Trump to resign or be removed from office because "Pence would be worse." It's understandable that Pence's acute religious conservatism is threatening to some people, though I don't think Pence gets enough credit for changing his mind when it matters. If Trump is haphazard, Pence might be singularly focused on enacting an aggressive religious-right agenda.

But man do I wish these friends would talk to each other, because I can't stand the contradictions in their arguments. If Trump is so reckless that people should oppose him no matter their political ideology, then no liberal should say "Pence would be worse" because of Pence's hard-right ideology. Either the proper thing to do is remove Trump because of his unfitness for office, period, or conservatives should have just as much license to like him as liberals have to dislike him.

Am I wrong to see a contradiction in these positions? Do you fall on either side of the above divide -- or if you support Trump, do you have a response for these liberal critics?

Samir Mehta | September 21, 2017
[hidden by request]

Scott Hardie | September 21, 2017
Yeah, but the first party isn't really simply saying that Trump is not a genuine conservative. They're saying that to set aside one's principles in order to support one's preferred person for office is wrong.

I too would welcome Pence. He would bring stability. I don't think Trump's going away any time soon, but a sudden ragequit resignation is not impossible to imagine happening.

Samir Mehta | September 21, 2017
[hidden by request]

Scott Hardie | September 22, 2017
Yes, as a predicate.

Back in the early days of the last presidential primary, Five Thirty Eight plotted all GOP candidates in a five-ring Venn diagram, with Trump the furthest outlier from any other candidate. I'd say that's mostly accurate, to the degree that Trump doesn't undermine his own positions for a short-term win. (For instance, I cannot imagine any true "Tea Party" candidate making a deal with Pelosi and Schumer.)

Samir Mehta | September 22, 2017
[hidden by request]

Scott Hardie | September 23, 2017
I would like to clarify that I'm not criticizing Trump for making that deal with Pelosi and Schumer. I wish more politicians would do the right thing when it conflicts with their party and politics, and even if I doubt that Trump did this for the right reasons and doubt that the agreement will last, he still made the grown-up move here instead of the politically-motivated one, and I acknowledge that.