Jackie Mason | November 1, 2007
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Scott Hardie | November 1, 2007
How is being tall a lifestyle choice? I was born this way. Well, not literally, or that would have been one surprised ob/gyn. Anyway, there's a difference between correlation and causation.

Wait, smoking gives you cancer? That knowledge is so widespread now that it's hard to imagine back when it wasn't.

Lori Lancaster | November 1, 2007
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Aaron Shurtleff | November 1, 2007
Let's see...

Smoking..mostly quit, but the damage could already be done.
Drinking...oh, not me. Nope. :)
Tall...how tall is tall? I hope 5'10 isn't considered tall, but...
Fat...I'm overweight but not obese, so I guess I finally get one break!
Forget meat eating...I eat all that crap. :(
I'm not menstrating, so that's good for me. ;) Why isn't is WOmenstrating? (I kid!)

Plus, I got cancer all over my family history. Yeah, I'm pretty much done for! What can you do though? If I really stop drinking, and go vegetarian, yeah, I might live longer, but is that living? And I'm not trying to be a poo-head, but seriously, I don't think I could do it. Maybe I'm brainwashed by "Big Meat" or whatever they want to call the meat industry (Yeah, doesn't sound good to say you've been brainwashed by Big Meat...), but I tried vegetarian a while back, and I can't do it. Food is too bland for me without meat. It is. I did spicy, and tried a bunch of things, but the food had no passion for me. No OOMPH! I can eat some meals meatless, but I can't imagine going without long term. Six months was the best I could do, and I was a miserable b!tch the whole time. Mad props (does anyone but me even say mad props anymore?) to anyone who can do it. I'll take the cancer.

Allison Bair | November 1, 2007
I've been lurking for a while here so I hope you don't mind me chiming in, but have to say...

"Brainwashed by Big Meat!!" Hilarious.

I'm doing okay on the list, being a short, medium sized non-drinker, non-smoker. I probably eat more red meat than I should, but rarely lunch meat or hot dogs. I should excercise more. I feel like I've been pregnant or breastfeeding about half my adult life . . . I think the deal with pregnancy/breastfeeding is that your body gets an estrogen vacation.

Sadly, a lot of people still get cancer who did everything "right." I have two cousins (brother and sister in the same family) who both got breast cancer the same year. On that same side, two of my aunts died of breast cancer. All of them were extremely healthy, until suddenly they weren't. Anything you can do to decrease cancer risks is probably a good idea, but that doesn't mean you're safe.

Jackie Mason | November 1, 2007
[hidden by request]

Amy Austin | November 1, 2007
Heh... you got "mesothelioma" right, Jackie... it's "menstruating" that you keep missing!

Yes... there is a difference between causation and correlation -- certainly, just being tall isn't causative of anything... except perhaps slumped postures and bruised noggins! I do find it of incidental interest, however, that both the father and the brother of my friend who lost them both to colorectal cancer were over six feet (I would venture that's what they mean by "tall", Aaron -- but that's just my guess) -- her dad, I'm pretty certain, was over 6'4". And I am definitely certain that he was "brainwashed by Big Meat" (ha, I almost typed "Bug Meat" there!) -- he loved him some steak and burgers. But he was also skinny as a rail... which made him appear even taller. He was actual size, but he seemed much bigger to me. (That's for Aaron.)

With all the "factors" that we are constantly being bombarded with and informed of, I am simply convinced that moderation is the key. All things in moderation, and I'm not going to spend time sweating everything else (unless I can get my fat ass to a gym or on a bike or something!) -- life is too short, and I'd rather focus on enjoying what little I seem to be able to of it.

Russ Wilhelm | November 1, 2007
So I'm curious. These things are linked to cancer, but that's all I really hear. What did these studies consist of, and what medically connects being tall, or eating red meat to cancer? I've seen the breakdown of how meat is connected with cholesterol, but never seen anything more than statistics for cancer risk. Anybody got any links I can go to for what acts upon the cancer cells that causes them to activate?

Amy Austin | November 2, 2007
Well, one could pretty much spend hours upon hours looking into the causative vs. correlative nature of the red meat argument... but here is a sampling of links that bring up some "food for thought" (ha!):

The first, Paging Dr. Gupta, is essentially another person asking the same questions as yourself, Russ, and looking to establish the specific link in the equation. The respondents provide an interesting spectrum of rationale and plausibility, at the very least... but the most interesting posit here has to do with cooking methods vs. actual meat consumption:

There is a growing body of evidence that suggests how you cook your red meat can contribute to increased risks for cancer. A carcinogen called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons is found in grilled, barbecued and smoked meat (as well as many other foods). And another carcinogen called heterocyclic amines is produced by cooking meat at high temperatures - like pan frying and grilling. Interestingly, chicken and fish cooked in the same way do not have as high a level of carcinogens.
The next few links make some possible connections that really emphasize the whole "you are what you eat" concept. That is... what we do to animals for the sake of maximizing output is generally disgusting and not so easily evaded by the meat-eaters at the top of the food chain. There is already talk of how giving antibiotics to crop animals may be (is!) affecting us with regard to the reduced efficacy of antibiotics in treating our bacterial ailments. There are far more chain effects from the animal farming industry than that!

For instance, the business of dairy cows on the industrial scale (and scale has *everything* to do with all of these factors, to be sure!) is a very unnatural process. Just like humans, cows have to be kept pregnant, reproducing & lactating in order to supply *us* with their milk. Not only are there hormonal factors here (*besides* the also much talked about rBGH, which I could also provide links for, but for the sake of "brevity" and staying on topic, despite the potential scope of it, will not), but this is how veal calves are churned out. The calves are taken from the distraught mothers as soon as they are "of age" for crating and turning into veal -- something that makes convenient use of all the reproduction needed to keep the milk cows milking. Veal production aside (a truly abhorrent process for those who don't already know about it or believe it), is anyone stopping to consider how this sort of distress on the part of the mother cow might also affect the hormonal/chemical content of the milk that we drink??? I would consider it a worthwhile query in light of the information/findings on the link between meat/dairy consumption and reproductive cancers in women (second link below). Additionally, (Russ), here is a blurb that offers more specifics on how eating a lot of meat negatively impacts our physiological processes... including yet another mention of reproductive (and prostate) cancers:

excessive intake of animal protein
Excessive intake of animal protein

The high intake of animal protein is associated with an increased risk of breast, colon, pancreatic, kidney, prostate, and endometrial cancer. Excessive protein may produce large amounts of nitrogenous waste in the intestine, some of which can be converted to the highly carcinogenic compounds nitrosamines and ammonium salts. Heavy-protein diets may also cause the buildup of metabolic acids in the body and cause large amounts of calcium to leach from the bones, a serious detriment in the case of bone cancer, when bone calcium reserves tend to be mobilized and depleted.

A causal relationship between red meat consumption and cancer is supported by several large studies conducted in the U.S. Specifically, women with the highest level of meat consumption had double the rate of breast cancer compared to those who consumed small amounts of meat.63 Men who ate red meat over a five-year period were nearly three times more likely to contract advanced prostate cancer than men consuming mainly vegetarian fare.64 High rates of colon cancer have recently been linked to regular intakes of beef, pork, or lamb.65 In each of these studies, the meat-eating risks are associated with fat intake as well, since American meats are typically high in fat.

reproductive cancers in women (bold added for emphasis)
DIET
Since obesity increases one’s risk of breast cancer, eating a healthy diet and staying physically active are considered two of the best ways to reduce the risk of disease.
Campbell says that a diet of whole foods from mostly plant sources can have a very positive impact on overall health. In fact, Campbell says that as he conducted research throughout his career, but especially in relation to his findings in The China Study, he started to see a strong connection between the development of disease, including cancer, and the consumption of animal proteins.
Campbell was raised on a dairy farm in northern Virginia and spent much of his education and early career working on issues of “animal nutrition”—advocating the consumption of foods from animal sources and researching ways to increase the production of meat, eggs and milk for food.
“I thought the good old American diet was the best there was,” Campbell says.
But, according to Campbell, he found that the research shows an association between the consumption of meat and dairy and the incidence of cancer. This led to a turning point in not only his work, but his approach to his own health and that of his family. He says that proteins in meat and dairy, in particular, contribute to elevated risk of reproductive cancers—not only cancer of the breast, but also ovarian and prostate cancer.
“In my experience, when all this information is put together, it’s very clear to me that animal-based foods increase the risk of breast cancer,” Campbell says.
Campbell’s conclusion seems to be supported by a study from researchers at Brigham and Women’s Hospital and Harvard Medical School, published in the November 13, 2006 issue of the Archives of Internal Medicine. Researchers found that eating more red meat may be associated with a higher risk for hormone receptor-positive breast cancers in pre-menopausal women. In this study, researchers examined the link between red meat consumption and the development of breast cancer in 90,659 nurses between the ages of 26 and 46. They split the women into five groups based on how much red meat they ate. The group that ate the most red meat had nearly double the risk for hormone receptor-positive cancer compared to the groups that consumed the least red meat.
“The reason why the amount of red meat consumed by a pre-menopausal woman was related to her breast cancer risk is unknown, but this study shows that it has a strong association and that more research should be done to further explore this connection,” said Eunyoung Cho, the study’s lead author and assistant professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.
Campbell’s views are controversial among many experts, and the meat and dairy industries disagree with those who say that a diet that includes animal proteins increases the risk of cancer.
David Grotto is a registered dietician and national spokesperson for the American Dietetic Association. The ADA Foundation is supported by Kraft Foods, The Cattlemen’s Beef Board and The National Cattlemen’s Beef Association, according to the ADA website. Grotto says that the argument for meat or milk consumption leading to cancer is weak.
“Milk has been targeted because of raising insulin growth hormone (IGF-1), which theoretically may spur on growth of cancer cells,” Grotto wrote via email. “But in other studies, dairy may be protective for breast cancer, possibly due to its conjugated linoleic acid content (CLA). The milk/hormone connection lacks research to support the theory. This is also true with meat and breast cancer.”
Grotto does concur that maintaining a normal weight and balanced diet are essential for overall health, including cancer prevention.

“The best advice, based on credible science, happens to be the 2005 dietary guidelines for Americans, which encourages nutrient-dense food consumption, watching calorie intake, while encouraging exercise,” Grotto says. “Obesity is the number one concern regarding risk for breast cancer, not any one food or food group.”
Though they disagree with some of the details, many experts do seem to agree that diet holds a lot of power over maintaining good health.
“I do believe we’re beginning to gain an appreciation for the fact that energy balance and a good diet are beneficial [for preventing cancer],” says Dr. Susan Gapstur, a professor of preventive medicine at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine.
Campbell agrees.
“[Diet] offers a lot of promise, in terms of preventing disease, advancing health and reversing advanced heart disease,” says Campbell. “There’s a beautiful message lying there: we can use food to create health.”
And finally, there's the environmental aspect to consider in further conjunction with the YAWYE philosophy... since we *are* what we eat, we need to concern ourselves just as much with the impact of herbicides and pesticides on our crop animals as on us -- since cows are vegetarian, and we are omnivorous... we wind up eating these chemicals twice over! (And yes, I do recall what Aaron had to say about these things...)

If I didn't think I'd throw up and never eat meat again, I might actually be interested enough in these issues to take a course in animal husbandry (available at any of your fine neighborhood agricultural colleges... though probably only to majors) -- it's really disturbing to me... no matter how much you can reassure me about any of it, Aaron!


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