The TC Book/Movie Club

Erik Bates | January 19, 2005
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Scott Hardie | January 20, 2005
You know I'm down. I have often considered starting something like that on the site, but I didn't think anybody would sign up, and plus I wasn't smart like you to put it in TC. I thought I'd make a whole other section of the site for it, which is the exact sort of thing that turns people off, the Making A Big Deal Out Of It that I always have to do.

I'm not interested in a book club, but I know a few others who would be. I would definitely be into a movie club. (Every two weeks? Why not once weekly?)

I presume we'd take turns suggesting movies to keep it fair, and that anyone can skip a movie at any time and still be considered an equal participant.

You know what is the cool part to me? Being able to discuss a movie online without worrying about spoilers. I word my reviews so as to avoid plot details, but here it would swing in the other direction, being as specific as I can. I like that a lot.

Lori Lancaster | January 20, 2005
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Denise Sawicki | January 20, 2005
I would be more into a book club rather than a movie club, most likely. But I guess I also have certain genres of books that I don't tend to get into...

Kris Weberg | January 20, 2005
Book.

Club!

Scott Horowitz | January 20, 2005
If you do a book club, which I may do, I'd reccomend a book a month. I just have little time to read. Most of my reading is done on the toilet (I know you all wanted to hear that).

Kris Weberg | January 20, 2005
Wow! Now I'm going to go use steel wool on my eyes! Yay!

E. M. | January 20, 2005
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Lori Lancaster | January 20, 2005
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Erik Bates | January 20, 2005
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Scott Horowitz | January 20, 2005
I like the idea, Eric, I'm always up for a good read. But, I think we should do a rotating genre. Some of us are more into Sci-fi, while others may be more into romance novels (I do hope we can skip this genre). It definitely has the possibility to work. Anyone reading anything good we can start with? I'm currently reading America by John Stewart.

John E Gunter | January 20, 2005
Good idea, and I'll comment on books/movies I've already experienced, but someone on here knows well enough, I'm doing to much already to jump into something else, so I'll have to bow out on the concept myself.

But like I said, if you guys suggestion something I've already read/seen, I'll be more then happy to put in my 2 cents.

John

Erik Bates | January 20, 2005
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Lori Lancaster | January 20, 2005
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Anna Gregoline | January 20, 2005
America the Book is currently on my list as well, but every time I read a page, I laugh so hard I have to take a break. It's going to take a long time to read. =)

Erik Bates | January 20, 2005
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Scott Horowitz | January 20, 2005
My favorite part is the inside cover.

Jackie Mason | January 20, 2005
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Erik Bates | January 20, 2005
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Scott Hardie | January 21, 2005
Yeah, I'm surprised more people aren't speaking up for the movie club. I hope nobody's intimidated because I write all that crap about movies on the same site where the discussions would take place.

I'll consider the book club, especially in months where I'm not already busy, but I don't see why we can't do both. I like the chapter-by-chapter idea.

I would prefer either to give this its own section of the site, or at the least its own zone in TC, so that it doesn't get drowned out by the regular TC discussions. That would also allow me to create a simple poll to decide what book or movie comes next, to bring some organization to it, so we're not just tossing out suggestions. But like I already said, it's my first instinct to make a big deal out of it, so tell me if this is too much. I'd be able to do it next week after the Oscar contest starts.

We could also incorporate television, for those of us watching the same series every week.

Kris Weberg | January 21, 2005
Some friends and I are starting a Derrida reading group, but I have a feeling that's not the kind of "book club' y'all are talking about.

Scott Hardie | January 21, 2005
Can I show up wearing a "Deconstructor? Damn near killed her!" t-shirt?

Kris Weberg | January 21, 2005
Sure! The more jouissance, the merrier!

Scott Horowitz | January 21, 2005
That's a great idea, Scott.. Have a movie,tv,book section. And we can talk about the latest episode of 24, discuss Star Wars Episode 3, and bitch about Rush Limbaugh's latest novel.

Lori Lancaster | January 21, 2005
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Denise Sawicki | January 22, 2005
I didn't want to start a new topic, but has anyone seen the movie Dogville? I just rented that, having no idea what it was about. Warning, the following could be construed as containing an extremely VAGUE SPOILER:

It presents probably the bleakest portrait of the human race I have ever seen. As such, I quite liked it, though it's definitely weird and difficult to sit through. It's not one of those movies you'd see for "entertainment" although it might appear that way for a little while.

Scott Hardie | January 22, 2005
I came real close to renting that this year. What finally turned me off was the anti-Americanism of it. I can make it through Monica Bellucci being brutally raped in "Irréversible," but I will draw the line at her rapist being American and the point of the scene being how evil our nation is. I am a patriot and there are limits to how much America-bashing I will take.

I'm glad that you enjoyed it, though, and I hope that doesn't sound sarcastic after I just finished picking on it. :-)

Kris Weberg | January 22, 2005
So I guess Dogville is for you what The Passion of the Christ is for me, eh?

Scott Hardie | January 22, 2005
Meaning that you are willing to watch scenes of excessive violence and bloodshed, except when the victim is Jesus Christ?

Kris Weberg | January 23, 2005
No, meaning I'm willing to watch a movie about Jesus Christ except to the point of its being an overly literalist
series of scenes of excessive violence and bloodshed.

Denise Sawicki | January 23, 2005
Um, I realize anti-Americanism is Roger Ebert's interpretation of the movie, but you can quite easily watch the movie without getting that impression, my interpretation was that it was anti-human which is more acceptable, right? :) I guess people claim that the filmmaker hates Americans, and then the closing song is called "Young American" which can give you that impression I guess, but the film overall is a metaphor that can be taken many different ways. (I'm not the only one who doesn't really share Roger Ebert's view that it's obviously offensive in this way... I saw some other reviews with various different interpretations...)Couldn't this be called an example of you taking offense to a movie without having seen it, Scott? :)

P.S. All the people in the movie are Americans, by the way, so it wouldn't seem so obvious that the movie is about Americans mistreating people of other cultures...

Scott Hardie | January 23, 2005
Oh... I didn't read Ebert's review. Honest. I picked that stuff up from media reports about some controversy around the film's release. Those media reports aren't always accurate, of course, but with so many other watchable movies out, it was enough of a turn-off for me to decide against seeing the film. If I was wrong, I regret it. Anyway, I don't think the suggestion was that we mistreat other cultures so much as that we don't even treat each other right. We're just bad, bad people. :-\

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
If I can avoid any movie where a woman is raped onscreen, I will. I just can't deal, it often gives me nightmares.

Amy Austin | January 24, 2005
Guess it's *really* good thing you've never experienced it then, huh?

I'm not too fond of it, either, but whenever I get too bothered by that sort of thing, I just chant the old "It's just a movie!" mantra. Come to think of it, that would have been kind of a funny joke for "Scream" to incorporate -- doesn't *everyone* in a horror audience do this in their heads or under their breath???

Denise Sawicki | January 24, 2005
SLIGHTLY LESS VAGUE SPOILERS: By the way, the reason I said this movie is hard to sit through is not because of excessive violence and bloodshed, but because it's so slow-paced and highly stylized. The only thing in the movie that would be considered "graphic" is one shot of a naked man. This scene was somewhat shocking because the movie had been so clean and innocent in the hours leading up to this point. The horror is mostly psychological (but could still conceivably give a person nightmares).

Jackie Mason | January 24, 2005
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Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
Amy, what kind of comment is that? Like any woman who is raped shrugs it off?

One of the main reasons I'm so bothered by it is that I've had several friends who have been raped. I can't stand the very thought of that fact, but it's true and I've talked to them about it and I can't bear to watch it happen to anyone, even if it's onscreen in a movie.

Scott Horowitz | January 24, 2005
I think she's saying that your nightmares would be worse if it really happened than just watching it in a movie.

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
Isn't that obvious? And wouldn't that be true for everyone?

Amy Austin | January 24, 2005
Thanks so much, Scott -- I was about to reply that I *knew* I should have kept my mouth shut -- but that's the right answer... glad you knew.

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
Sorry, just seemed like a rather cavalier and insensitive thing to say.

Amy Austin | January 24, 2005
As does everything I say to you, it seems... I only meant that since you seem to be ultra-sensitive about these things, it's a REALLY GOOD THING that it never happened to you -- I would think this a nice thing to wish for somebody...

Apology accepted.

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
It's so perky about such an awful thing, I guess. And pointless besides - who ISN'T glad they haven't been raped? Isn't a great thing YOU haven't been raped? I can't even fathom why anyone would say that to another person.

I'm still amazed you don't feel the need to apologize to me for anything. But, I guess people are just very different!

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
I guess it's just like as if you said something about it being really awful that this family you heard about was massacred by a madman - would it feel appropriate for anyone to say, "Wow you were really upset over that. Good thing YOUR family wasn't brutally murdered!"

Seems strange to me. Just trying to clarify and get my point across.

Amy Austin | January 24, 2005
Actually, Anna... I have never said here that it had not happened to me. And I have given apologies whenever I felt they were called for. (That "Apology accepted" note was a post-edit, BTW, in case you thought I was trying to be ugly.)

I was going to leave TC after the last big stink, but a couple of people here liked me well enough to ask me stick around. I decided I would, but that I would AVOID this type of discussion with you -- unfortunately, I don't ever see them coming, and since you were adult enough to continue addressing me, I thought I would do the same... as nicely as I could.

And "perky", BTW, *was* and *is* my style of coping -- obviously, very different from yours. Do you think that you would be able to make jokes to your investigators about being kidnapped by two redneck strangers and somehow having your life spared??? (And on my little brother's birthday, for extra special remembrance.) Well, I did just that... and it seems that I can still watch things onscreen that you cannot.

The fact of the matter, Anna, is that we all have different ways of getting along... and it should be clear enough to you by now that we, in fact, do it like oil and water. So how about we just agree to avoid each other from now on, since -- as you said -- people are just very different.

Or maybe we won't even have to, since Scott might just ask me to leave after picking on you AGAIN... seems to me that's what would make you happiest, Anna.

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
I'm sorry if I missed your apology after the "Big Stink," but I sure didn't see one. I felt it was warranted there.

I will not avoid anyone on this forum. I'm perfectly willing to get along with you and everyone else - but when threads are made where I am made fun of, and you take everything *I* say as offense (I don't buy that I'm taking everything you say poorly, since we've both commented on threads since the Big Stink) (and I'm thinking right now about agreeing with you on what a nice thread that other one was - the one from awhile ago with no fighting? I was surprised you found that a snark).

What would make me happiest would be a realization from you that I don't hate you and you don't have to hate me. And if I missed it before, I'm sorry for saying it now, but I WOULD like an apology from you for all the mess. I'm still hurt over the outright insults you've slammed at me. You and I have gotten into it, but I've tried very hard to discuss things without making it personal.

I'm truly sorry for whatever it is you've experienced.

It doesn't lessen my horror at rape scenes in movies, in fact it only increases them. I'm glad you're able to watch that stuff and say, "Just a movie" (in the recent case of Monster, it wasn't just a movie), but all I can do is think of the thousands of people (and friends of mine!) who have been victimized and it gives me nightmares. I still don't understand your comment at all, but I'm willing to let it drop. Given the nature of your comments towards me lately, the comment appeared to me to have a nasty edge. I'm sure it probably didn't.

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
It may surprise you to know too, that I never asked Scott to ask you to leave, and I never would.

Scott Horowitz | January 24, 2005
So.... getting back to the subtext of this thread. Anyone read a book, see a movie or a watch a TV show that we may discuss?

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
I am currently watching a show called "Unscripted." It's on HBO, done by George Clooney and Steven Sodoburgh. It's a look at the life of actors and actresses in class and trying to get work. It's REALLY interesting.

Steve Dunn | January 24, 2005
I'm watching Unscripted, too. Seems really good so far. I like Clooney's style of "realistic" television that's not real, but seems real. It's an interesting new genre. I was one of apparently three dozen people worldwide who religiously watched "K Street" when it was on. Now I'm hooked on "Unscripted." I love how they juxtapose all these of actors working to hone their craft, doing all these emotional monologues in acting class and such, with shots of the crap they have to do to make a living. Seems like a VERY tough life.

On a side note, Amy and Anna, maybe one of you could take the high road and just stop responding. Completely. As in, let it go. You've enacted the same drama so many times I feel as though I could write the script myself. I was away from the board for weeks, but apparently nothing has changed. Trust me when I say WE KNOW you're offended, you don't understand why the other person would say something like that, you've been completely misinterpreted, and you don't see why it's necessary to be that way.

Normally I enjoy internet spats for pure entertainment value, but yours is just the same thing over and over. Consider... next time you are tempted to throw a subtle jab at the other person, or respond with righteous indignation, just... don't.

Take the high road before the other person does. It'll be the greatest victory of all.

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
That's the problem - I'm not trying to "win." I'm trying to make peace. I don't feel I can do that until I get an apology. I don't think that's too much to ask. I'm sorry for the past ugliness, but I certainly didn't take it as far as Amy did.

Until it's all sorted out, we should have our own thread, or, conversely, just don't read our posts. Thanks.

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
Your side note only further derailed the thread - maybe next time put it in an email? Mine is agregoli@hotmail.com.

The other thing we're trying to watch is Arrested Development - but I must say, I'm a bit lost. It's fast-paced! Are you supposed to learn the characters, or just go for the ride?

Scott Horowitz | January 24, 2005
Not to get involved in the argument. But, furthuring comments along after a perceived negative comment has been made does not help to make peace. (did that make sense?)

Anna Gregoline | January 24, 2005
And I explained why I still don't feel settled after the incident. Can we talk about the point of the thread, like you yourself wanted?

Lori Lancaster | January 24, 2005
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Scott Horowitz | January 24, 2005
hehe, Lori, you are a slow typist :)

Is it me or is Lord of the Rings the hardest book to read known to man?

Lori Lancaster | January 24, 2005
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Scott Horowitz | January 24, 2005
I got about 1/2 through the Fellowship about 1.5 years ago, and can't pick it up again. Since then, I read all the Harry Potter books several times, and 2 Dune books. Go figure.

Lori Lancaster | January 24, 2005
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Scott Horowitz | January 24, 2005
I liked all 3 movies, but was disappointed with the 3rd for cutting out some key plot points. It's not that I look for easy reads. Frank Herbert has written some of the most complex novels ever. But, I just find that Tolkien drags on-and-on about useless details. Supposedly, the reason LOTR is so long is because he got paid by the word.

Scott Hardie | February 3, 2005
In case anybody's wondering, I'm holding this section of the site until I'm sure TC can once again enjoy a lasting peace; currently it seems to me that it cannot. Also, I'm way friggin' busy.