Hasta La Vista

Scott Hardie | June 19, 2007
Governor Schwarzenegger – four years now and that phrase still doesn't sound right – sparked controversy for suggesting that Latino immigrants to this country improve their academic performance by learning English the way he did, watching American television instead of Univision and Telemundo. (link) Right or wrong?

Lori Lancaster | June 19, 2007
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Jackie Mason | June 19, 2007
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Scott Hardie | June 20, 2007
Public support seems to be picking up behind Schwarzenegger, and Latino journalists have voiced support too. (link) From what I can tell, there are two camps in opposition. One makes it a cultural thing, as if Schwarzenegger is telling immigrants to leave their native culture behind, which not only misses his point by a mile but maybe isn't the horrible thing it's said to be.

The other camp gets his point dead-on and disagrees, and I'm with them: Schwarzenegger doesn't say that the best way to learn English is to turn off Spanish TV (which would be a good idea), but that the way to do better in school is to turn off Spanish TV. I'm all in favor of raising your IQ by turning off TV altogether, but jokes aside, Spanish-taught school classes have allowed students who struggle in language acclimation to excel in other areas like math and science, turning out contributing members of society instead of middle-school drop-outs who will be stuck with menial jobs or no jobs at all. Despite working my ass off trying to learn French for three years in high school and college, I just couldn't get my head around it, and so I know that with France's fierce pride in their culture, I'd be one of those useless drop-outs if my parents had tried to raise me in France. I'm glad we offer education and information in other languages, putting the betterment of the individual in need over our own pride, and Spanish TV is part of that. The danger is allowing large groups of people not to assimilate into the larger society, and it's a hard balance to strike.

Amy Austin | June 20, 2007
Well put, Scott.

Jackie Mason | June 20, 2007
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Aaron Shurtleff | June 20, 2007
But, Scott, how can you say, on one hand, that learning English by turning off Spanish TV is a good idea, but that learning English to do better in American schools is not a good idea? I mean, I'm all for assistance in class work for those who have no aptitude for learning any language but their native language (I'm not a total dick), but wouldn't you think it would be best if everyone could understand the lessons without having to force school systems to spend money on separate classrooms and teachers to teach solely in another language for the benefit of those who cannot or will not learn the native language of the country they live in? Why is segregation so vital and awesome now, when not too many decades back, it was proof that the white man had it in for those they considered beneath themselves?

And what's the cut off? Second generation? Third generation? Numbers of years in the US? How many years is long enough? At what point can we say, "OK, you're making no real attempt to learn the language, what's up?"?

There is a considerable population of French-Canadian folks who now live in Maine (I grew up around them), and almost all of them learned English (even the ones that are first generation in this country). I don't recall any special teachers in the schools to help them by teaching the curriculum in French (although there were a couple who had tutors to help them). And we had French channels (beamed in from Canada!) Why is there a difference?

Is watching English tv the best way to learn English, probably not. But it does help.

Jackie Mason | June 20, 2007
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Tony Peters | June 20, 2007
I had an Aunt who was a math teacher in the San Francisco area during the 70-80's, now Linda was fluent in Spanish but fought like hell against California's eventual bilingual schools on the gounds that if we start down the road for Spanish we will have to do every other immigrant language as well just to be legal. Somehow Cali has gotten away with only Spanish but the Koreans Filipino's and the Vietnamese in particular have a good case for a lawsuit that could really bankrupt the state (well more so than the illegals already have). It's bad enough that we have buses that pick up students in Mexico every morning do we really need to teach entirely in Spanish as well? as for TV don't be messing with my mexican soapoperas

Scott Hardie | June 21, 2007
I'm not against learning English to do better in American schools. That's crazy. I just saying that I'm glad we have a safety net for those who can't learn it or have trouble learning it. It's too easy to take the absolute "learn English or go home" position that ignores the complexity of the situation.

This is way more politically incorrect than what Arnold said, but I'll say it anyway: It's like remedial classes. Plenty of American kids have learning disabilities and need to be put in slow-track courses that guide them through their trouble subjects. They'll never learn as much as the kids in the regular classes, but it's better than "learn like the normal kids or drop out of school," isn't it? They grow into productive adults instead of hopeless (often homeless) losers with no future. That's no waste of tax dollars, is it? That's not segregation, is it?

Spanish-taught classes aren't some privilege we're handing out to the lazy immigrants who want to come to our country and enjoy a free ride on our tax dollars. They're a necessary element of a society that believes in equal opportunity and universal education. The real segregation is NOT offering them, treating students who have trouble with the language as second-class citizens.

Maybe this last analogy is too much of a stretch, but Aaron, you recently made a great point against capital punishment (I'm rephrasing): Would you rather live in a society that lets some innocent people be executed so that all murderers are punished, or a society that lets some murderers escape death so that no innocent people are executed? The latter sounds a lot more attractive to you and me, albeit not to everyone. By the same token, I'd rather live in a society that lets some lazy immigrants get a free ride so that no able immigrants are robbed of their potential, than a society that robs some able immigrants of their potential so that no lazy immigrants get a free ride.

Jackie Mason | June 21, 2007
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Scott Hardie | June 21, 2007
Aaron: I think I see the misunderstanding. When I wrote that I'm opposed to Schwarzenegger's suggestion of turning off the Spanish TV, that's all I meant by it, not his larger suggestion to learn English and/or do better in school. Telemundo and Univision are businesses, yes, but they provide an avenue for news and information that is not so dispensible. By referring to his larger point I caused confusion. Sorry.

Jackie: What he said is that immigrant students can do better in school by turning off the Spanish TV and immersing themselves in English. For many that's true, but not for all. I believe the question at hand is, does offering an alternative route to information (whether in Spanish classes or on Spanish television) do more good to the students who need it or more harm to the students who don't? It's strictly opinion until one of us goes and looks up the research. :-)

Lori Lancaster | June 21, 2007
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Jackie Mason | June 21, 2007
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Lori Lancaster | June 21, 2007
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Jackie Mason | June 21, 2007
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Scott Hardie | June 23, 2007
Great point, Lori. White America likes to pretend it's strange for Latin American immigrants to cling so much to their language out of cultural pride, but if cultural pride should have nothing to do with it, then why doesn't white America relax protections on English and embrace other languages?