RB - Level 10 Card Guesses?

Matthew Preston | August 7, 2007
I'm thinking maybe Madonna and Michael Jackson. If potential ticket sales are taken into consideration, I'd think that Barbara Streisand and Celine Dion would be pretty high levels as well (sadly).

Anybody else have ideas?

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
HAHAHAHAHA... yes, sadly, but truly!

I was thinking along the same lines, Matt: Prince, Elton John, Billy Joel, U2 (yes!)...

And how could any of us overlook... the Beatles!!!

(Rolling Stones, the Who... Aerosmith?)

Aaron Shurtleff | August 7, 2007
Level 10 cards...

It could only be Megadeth and Cannibal Corpse. C'mon! :)

Seriously, though, I imagine MJ would be one, but Madonna? Really? I'd probably think to see Nirvana. I still can't find a station that won't play Nirvana (sadly). :)

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
I'm thinking that -- based on sheer presence, crowd draw and continuing influence alone -- the Beatles would have to conceivably be *the* most powerful card in the lot, with the ability to smite all! I mean, I'm not the biggest fan that ever walked the Earth (I'm pretty sure that Lori is a bigger fan), but I can certainly recognize greatness...

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
Nirvana is certainly plausible for similar reasons...

Yes, of course Madonna! I mean, yeah, she's really just a shadow of her pre-milennium self, but still... power & influence? Totally.

Lori Lancaster | August 7, 2007
[hidden by request]

Matthew Preston | August 7, 2007
Oh geez, I didn't think of the Beatles. My girlfriend would be so disappointed. I am standing by Madonna being a high level card. She goes on her "world" tours (which involve New York and London) and they are huge sell outs with thousands of dollars per ticket.

Nirvana while well known, was only around for about 2+ years. Granted they did spearhead the whole grunge phase. I'd personally put Pearl Jam higher than a level 2, especially when it comes to live performances... but I am beyond biased there.

Now, for humor sakes, it would be awesome if one of the level 10 cards was Candy Dulfer.

Aaron Shurtleff | August 7, 2007
Well, why not Elvis Presley, then?

Lori Lancaster | August 7, 2007
[hidden by request]

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
Okay... I edited the above comment in response to Aaron -- obviously too long after the fact and other comments, so reiterating here:

Yes, of course Madonna! I mean, yeah, she's really just a shadow of her pre-milennium self, but still... power & influence? Totally.

Lori Lancaster | August 7, 2007
[hidden by request]

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
D'OH! How could I have left out Elvis?!?!?! Now I'm with Matt on the diappointment factor... his birthday is the same as mine, and I love the King!!! (The original king, before MJ was ever born, let alone crowned!)

Aaron, are you serious? About the Beatles, I mean???

Aaron Shurtleff | August 7, 2007
Yes, I seriously thought that the cards were only covering bands from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, because that's what I had...other than Janis Joplin,...because I wasn't thinking.

Let me just kill that post, because it was said in haste and stupidness! :(

Matthew Preston | August 7, 2007
On the same track as Lori... Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, The Grateful Dead. I also hope Devo is in there somewhere.

Amy, if you cancel your challenge with Nick, I'll play you right now.

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
"Candy Dulfer" -- Matt, you are hilarious!

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
I was going to mention the Dead, too -- again, not a huge fan, but if we're talking about criteria...

Hm. Play Matt now, huh? Okay, I guess I have time enough to have my ass handed to me once or twice before I go home... off to cancel!

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
Well... are you going to challenge me, Matt -- or are you going to hog the play-first advantage in order to give me a really thorough trouncing?!?! ;-D

Erik Bates | August 7, 2007
[hidden by request]

Amy Austin | August 7, 2007
True, true -- Babs & Celine are not really rock, are they! For that matter, I guess Madonna & MJ aren't really, either!! I think your list is sound, Erik.

And based on that focus... I definitely think that Nirvana deserves to be at 9 or 10 -- who else rocked the 90s?!! (I agree that Pearl Jam merits higher, Matt... but not necessarily 9/10...)

Steve West | August 8, 2007
The Who is a glorified garage band. Presley lives! Although I like The Who, I like to keep things in perspective. Where does Michael Jackson fit? Insert tasteless pedophile joke here.

Amy Austin | August 8, 2007
Ewww... ;-)

Since Steve seems to be awfully full of... something... tonight, perhaps I should challenge him! I think I am too damned embarrassed to challenge *anyone* right now, though... ;-7

Scott Hardie | August 8, 2007
All good guesses here. Some of the bands named are waiting in the upper ranks. Some are not, but probably will be added eventually.

Many performers are really better classified under other genres of music, like Madonna as pop music. But the outer edges of rock have a hazy definition. It has long been a pet peeve of mine that the Rock Hall of Fame includes musical genres that are mere cousins of rock, stemming from the same ancestors, but now that I'm something of an amateur rock historian in assembling this game, I see why that's fair. I will allow some crossover artists if they enhance the game by being in it, but I'm trying to stick to mostly true rock n roll.

Scott Hardie | August 8, 2007
And Amy, if you see this in the next 20 minutes, I'm up for a quick match or two tonight. You could cancel your challenge to Aaron and re-challenge him when we're done, if you'd like.

Amy Austin | August 8, 2007
I'm up for it!

Denise Sawicki | August 8, 2007
I would have thought even Radiohead was greater than a 1; weren't they about the most popular band in the universe at one point? :P Then again I'd even have ranked Belle and Sebastian as at least a 2 (seeing that I know plenty of less popular bands) and they are probably about a negative 27 in any normal person's ranking system :P

Aaron Shurtleff | August 8, 2007
I think I've already seen KISS, so they aren't a 10 (yet!), but I agree that they are influential!

And I'd have Def Leppard higher than 2...at least 5. :)

And Bon Jovi will be 10 one day! No matter what it takes. :P

Matthew Preston | August 9, 2007
There's a level 10 for auction today. The level 9 I just bought is The Who.

Denise Sawicki | August 9, 2007
A level 10 50's band. That would be awesome if it was Buddy Holly. It's probably something I never would have thought of though. I'll never have that kind of money to buy those bands *pout*

Edit: I'm sure it's Elvis, Buddy Holly probably doesn't rank too high with most people :)

Matthew Preston | August 9, 2007
I'm with you Denise about Elvis. The Beatles would be a 60's card I'm sure.

Matthew Preston | August 9, 2007
BTW Scott - Are the daily auctions random?

Scott Hardie | August 9, 2007
They started out as completely random, then I realized on the first day that it's not terribly exciting if they're all low-ranked. So currently, one is a random card from ranks 10-5, and another is a random card from ranks 4-1, and the third is random from any rank. The only other forced element is that they are three different cards, no duplicates.

Aaron Shurtleff | August 9, 2007
Amen to the never having that kind of cash...

I guess I'll just have to try to get my cards the old fashioned way...win them in epic battle!!

Probably not... :(

Amy Austin | August 9, 2007
Please, Aaron...

You talk and play enough to afford it (okay, maybe you don't play as much, but you do blog a lot!)... and Denise, you just need to follow his example!

Aaron Shurtleff | August 9, 2007
Yeah but the blogging is super sporatic, and the comments are short and stupid. Scott will probably start beating on me for them soon.

When have I ever been close to R$100000?

Amy Austin | August 9, 2007
I don't know... part of me wishes I could see the wallets of the other players, but I'm sure that would be a very bad thing, incenting jealousy-driven challenging, TC blathering, and general bloody rioting.

I also wish the bidding did work like eBay, in that you can see who the highest bidder is... I see, though, that Scott has made it so that the names of the bidders are in randomly generated order each time... so you can't even deduce anything!

Aaron Shurtleff | August 9, 2007
I wish I could just see the cards of everyone!!! I want to know what ones I still need to collect!! Especially those Level 1 cards that no one likes to use (except me...and I think I saw a level 5 fight involving Scott once!!!)

Not that I would turn down a level 50 fight, if I ever get to that lofty goal!!

Amy Austin | August 9, 2007
Haven't you looked at the collector guide? I know it only shows the ones played, but I'm pretty sure most everybody has or will play all of their cards at some point in the not-too-distant future...

Aaron Shurtleff | August 9, 2007
Well, of course I've looked at the collector's guide (and I sigh mightily at the lack of purple when I do so!), but there are still some that show up as ???, even though someone owns them. And plus, I want 'em all anyways!!

And the level 1 cards don't come out too often, unless someone has lost all their good cards, or they are compensating for having one huge card. That's why I like to lower the level; to get to see lower level bands! And to get rid of the big bands, of course!! :)

Amy Austin | August 9, 2007
Well, of course I've looked at the collector's guide (and I sigh mightily at the lack of purple when I do so!)...

Yeah, I feel ya' there...

Scott Hardie | August 10, 2007
I like the Level 5 battles, myself. Your strategy has to be a lot more precise, and who minds giving up an R1 card if they lose (besides Aaron apparently)? They're not for everybody, though.

Aaron Shurtleff | October 5, 2007
Dragging this back up from the depths...

So, Nirvana... There's a ??? spot at Rank 9 where it could go, and one at Rank 7(and one at Rank 2, but...I don't think so). Does anyone care to speculate whether one of those is Nirvana? Or is it going to come in lower, do you all think?

I think it'll come in at 7, personally. I don't want to take anything away from Nirvana (and they did have a huge effect on music when they broke), but I don't know if they reach the level of a Rank 9. What do you all think?

I mean, besides that Aaron needs something better to be concerned about than where Nirvana might or might not be in Rock Block... ;)

The Rank 9 might be Madonna, if my guess of Nirvana at Rank 7 is true. Maybe vice versa... But then Scott did say that Madonna is more pop music than true rock...

Lori Lancaster | October 5, 2007
[hidden by request]

Aaron Shurtleff | October 5, 2007
Well, but then, Madonna started a decade before Nirvana, and Nirvana suffers from the unfortunate problem of Kurt Cobain being dead, which limits their ability to continue to release albums and have a decade spanning career. ;)

Yeah, I wondered about Scott's calling Madonna more pop than rock, when she is pretty much as much rock as Michael Jackson. MJ opened the door, so Madonna should be riding in on his coat tails.

Lori Lancaster | October 5, 2007
[hidden by request]

Scott Hardie | October 6, 2007
Neither Madonna nor Michael Jackson were part of the original 110 bands, which were much more pure in their rock – Johnny Cash and EWF were the crossovers.. I have since relaxed this restriction, but I need to restrict the flow a bit, because I don't want to overwhelm the game with semi-rock stars. Look at this year's crop of Rock Hall of Fame induction nominees, for instance. (link)

Joanna Woods | October 6, 2007
Nirvana is a 7. Good guess Lori. I got it as my mystery card today.

Aaron Shurtleff | October 6, 2007
Yeah! Great guess, Lori! Wish I had said the same thing 28 minutes earlier! ;)

I kid, of course! :)

Steve West | October 6, 2007
Nine? Stones.
Eight? Beach Boys.
Seven? Stevie Wonder, ZZ Top, Allman Bros, Simon & Garfunkel.

Tony Peters | October 6, 2007
Led Zep maybe....and while we are talking about cards how is Nirvana a 7 but the Pistols are only a 3? or Rush???? Nirvana had all of 3 albums and 11 singles....yes they were the flag wavers for the grunge generation but their actual contribution to the genre was really limited in comparison the Pistols. As for Rush well I really don't get the fact that they are only a 3 given the number of Gold (23) Platinum 14 and Multi Platinum (3) albums

Steve West | October 6, 2007
Led Zep already in the game as an R8. Agree about the level of the other bands you mentioned but the game has Scott's subjectivity all over it, as it was intended. But seriously Scott, Rush an R3 - same as Journey and Jackson Browne? (Ouch)

Tony Peters | October 6, 2007
OK well i haven't seen Led Zep yet but thanks for telling me...ugh Rush and Journey in the same breath.
And Nirvana only really brought alternative music into pop music...they rode the coat tails of at least a dozen other bands....yeah I have issues with them I really didn't find their music that ground breaking.

Scott Hardie | October 6, 2007
Nirvana started out as a 6 and got promoted in part because of people's comments here in TC that they should/would be higher.

Pistols should be higher, I agree. But there's a much higher-ranked punk band that sort of stands for all of them, the way Nirvana is so far out in front of other alternative bands.

Number of best-selling albums and hit songs is one criterion for rank, but not the only one. A band's stature in rock history is another, and a band can be considered one of the greats even if their music isn't all that good (see Nirvana). Before I chose and ranked the original 110, I read a number of lists by prominent rock critics and historians of the greatest bands of all time, and let them guide my thinking. That's how bands like The Velvet Underground and The Yardbirds made it so high despite not selling many records.

Rush will get a promotion soon. Journey is where they belong. Jackson Browne wasn't one of the original 110 and is going to stay put for a long time.

Tony Peters | October 6, 2007
Ok maybe in 30 years people will look back on Nirvana in the same way we do the Doors (though I doubt it) I agree that bands like the Clash and the Ramones had longer impression on punk rock than the Pistols but without the Pistols (and bands like Bauhaus and Joy Division) I doubt any punk, college, emo, ska or alternative (to name a few Genre's) music would have ever made it to the main stream....

as for Journey, can they be demoted?

Denise Sawicki | October 9, 2007
I notice that 3 people have Buddy Holly, anybody want to trade him for my Ray Charles? It's almost the same numbers, 7618 instead of 6718 so if someone can spare the 50's card and thinks Ray Charles is cooler, they should trade me :-P. Is this me being annoying again? I didn't want to just put him up for swap, because I only really covet Buddy Holly...

Scott Hardie | October 10, 2007
Sorry, Denise. I have the other Ray, and I don't particularly want him either. I like his music, but he's way too similar to my other R6 cards, and the slightly weakest of the three. My open offer to swap him went ignored for days, so I don't think you'd get rid of him for Buddy or anyone else. Risk him in trade, wait for an eventual promotion, or wait patiently for a swap. Good luck.

Denise Sawicki | October 10, 2007
No problem, I just figured it was worth a shot. Buddy Holly might be too dorky for some!

Aaron Shurtleff | November 21, 2007
SO...any guesses as to what Steve West's new rank 8 card is? ;) The last of the original R8 bands, according to our esteemed Scott Hardie? Anyone? Am I the only person who wildly speculates?

Based on where the ??? is located, it's towards the back of the alphabet (since 'Weird Al' has shown that symbols come out at the beginning of the order rather than the end), so...

I'm going with Warren Zevon. I'm not a fan, but there seem to be rabid Zevon fans out there, and he may be influential. I can't think of anything else... Hmm...

Steve West | November 21, 2007
Judges? EEEEEeeeehhhhhhhhhh! I'll play it soon though.

Aaron Shurtleff | November 22, 2007
I'd like to ask the judges for a clarification of that answer... ;) Can't wait to see it! The excitement is building, even if only at my house!!

Russ Wilhelm | November 22, 2007
My guess would be for ZZ Top, with Yes sitting right above it (also a mystery R8). Both are worthy of R8 status.....yup, that's what I'm going with.

Aaron Shurtleff | February 8, 2008
OK, as the only person who wildly speculates on mysterious cards, the last R8 which no one has. Any guesses?

My $R (ha!) is on Robert Johnson. He's famous, very (VERY) influential, and the presence of Muddy Waters means blues artists do get considered for addition. I hope I get this card in the Exchange!! Then, I'll know!! :)

I have to guess correctly one of these times! I got a good feeling about this one!!!

Steve West | February 8, 2008
Paul McCartney. Besides the Beatles of course, his career includes stuff with Wings, numerous solo efforts, one of the most famous soundtracks, and collaborations aplenty. He even wrote a symphony (an elegy for Linda) for Pete's sake. Not that I'm campaigning for him, just giving the rationale for that choice. And as Matt has already speculated, Madonna.

Other possibilities:
Sam Cooke
Marvin Gaye
The Jackson Five

Aaron Shurtleff | February 9, 2008
Well, the slot I speak of falls between Nirvana and Sly and the Family Stone, so alphabetically only Paul McCartney and Sam Cooke will fall into that particular spot. Not that Marvin Gaye or The Jackson Five are not good choices to appear eventually.

Both of those are good choices. Paul McCartney might be the one that proves me wrong...

Russ Wilhelm | February 9, 2008
Paul McCartney would have to be my primary choice as well.

Ones I can't discount, but don't personally see as R8's.
REO Speedwagon
Nitty Gritty Dirt Band
Peter, Paul, & Mary
Peter Frampton

And from the left field....
Sha Na Na

Aaron Shurtleff | February 11, 2008
Well, Ms. Sarah Kyle has received the card in question. Now it's just finding out from her what it is...

PLEASE TELL!!!

Eric Wallhagen | February 11, 2008
Anyone else note that Russ has all 4 R10s? Just wow...

Amy Austin | February 11, 2008
Yes. Been noticing that for a while now. Some pretty unusual luck there. ;-)

Aaron Shurtleff | February 11, 2008
Steve picked it up with one of his secondary guesses...

Aaron Shurtleff | May 4, 2010
Um...There's another mystery R10. Formed in whole from the ether, a new Rock GOD (or GODDESS) has entered the ultimate pantheon!!!

Who could it be?!? Let's speculate!!

Steve West | May 4, 2010
Hmmm...My best guess (such as it is) would be Robert Johnson, the man sometimes credited as the one who started it all. I'm not sure I agree because I don't know enough about him. But he carries a huge reputation on such a small library of recorded music.

Scott Hardie | May 4, 2010
Bonus info: This new R10 is the 1000th performer in the game.

Aaron Shurtleff | May 4, 2010
Ooh! I like Robert Johnson for that R10, but I am still thinking... :D

Tony Peters | May 14, 2010
Boooooom the card gods smiled upon me.........now excepting 47 games